Panniers and Petticoats!

Panniers and Petticoats!

Just a quick image list of all the pannier's I've found whilst doing research online. I want to be able to update this post as I slowly discover where these images come from and which museum etc, but for now it's just a 'here they are!' kind of post.

If anyone knows anymore details about each of these, I'd love your imput. Thanks.

Also, I've changed all the words from 'pannier' to 'petticoat'. It's funny how you stick to what you first learnt but Pannier was the French word and 'hooped petticoat' the English. I might as well get used to using the correct term now, it's only a few extra letters.

Full Length Hooped Petticoat.

Details: English 1750-80. LACMA describe it as 'pannier made of linen plain weave cloth and cane hoops'

Also interesting features are: 

* Two arched canes at top.

* Four complete round canes.

* Hem is caned.

* Finished Length is about low to mid calf.

* Plain unbleached colour.

* Large and Triangle shaped pockets - similar to Norah Waugh's pannier pattern.

* Sounds silly to say - but a flat cane is used as the ridges to each channel are not bumped.

* And again, this may sound odd, but when I zoom in closer to the image, the stitching for the top two cane arches disappears before it reaches the first complete circle cane. I mention this because construction is an important point and Norah Waugh mentions in her 'Corsets and Crinolines' that 'The top pieces vary in depth according to the size of the waist' p.46. Could this be a retractable option?
* I have emailed LACMA and have asked for some more details about this item.

Mid-Length Hooped Petticoat and Cage Frame Petticoat:

All the website said about these two was: Panniers c.1760.

Blue Pair:

* Two arched canes at top. 

* The bottom of these two arched canes does seem to join the first circular cane rather more fiercely than the top. Similar to the zoom in on the above image. Again, could this just be the stitching come undone or a way to reduce the length of cane?

* Three Complete Circular Canes deep.

* Hem is caned.

* Larger looking pocket openings.

* Blue; I'd presume Linen.

* Probably finishes around knee level.
* Length of hip is similar to torso so about 14"- 16"

Cage Frame:

* Two Arched Canes at top.
* 4 round main canes.
* Probably mid calf in length.
* Looks like 16 connecting straps coming from Waistband.
* Wonder what the materials are - what the boning is?
* Length of hip is longer than torse so I'm guessing about 18"?

Cage Frame Side Hips:

Can't seem to find the museum this particular pannier cage is from. The web site I got it from was: wilhelminamarquart.blogspot.com.
* Not made up using a single circular cane/boning but has what is similar to 3 arched canes that join to a cf single cane or boning.
* 4 straps at front and two over the arched sections.

* It would be interesting to find out what the cane/boning actually is, it could be whalebone as it is relatively dark and doesn't look covered. I need to find out where it is so I can find out more about it.

Short Hooped Petticoat:

In the Metropolitan Museum of Art's collection.
They label this pair of panniers as: Panniers ca. 1750. British. Tan Linen and Baleen.' 

Interesting Features:

* We know then, that it's definitely baleen that's been used for the boning.

* One Arched Bone.

* Two round circular bones.

* Hem's been boned also.

* Unable, from this view to see if it has pocket openings.

* I'd also like to be able to feel this fabric and see how stiff the linen was. I'm sure it's in one of Iris Brookes books that she uses the word 'canvas' to describe the weight of fabric used for the panniers, but I can't at present find the quote so we'll hold on that one til I can find where I've read it.

** UPDATE: I have found the quote and it was in Iris Brooke's books after all. The comment comes while writing about the references later on in the century to 'hoop' and how they probably were more likely to be referring to a 'hip-hoop' rather than, and I quote: "the whole whalebone and canvas petticoat".

Short Hooped Petticoat:

This garment is from the V&A's collection and is described as: British made for the retailer A Schrabner in 1778. Made of Linen, cane or whalebone.

Interesting Features are:

* One single arched Cane/Bone.

* One complete Circular Cane/Bone.

* Using a 'Zoom', it's quite hard to see the stitching round the circular cane/bone. The reason I mention this is that it could be the fabric is made to drape over a cage frame - although they would've probably mentioned this in their notes. Scrap that - I've just found a closer image, and it looks more like they've made what I call a 'French Seam Channel' i.e, they've sewn a casing out of the actual garment - this is suggested by the way - if you look at the second image - the top of the arched cane is strictly gathered (which suggests stitching) while look at the way the fabric flops down over the cane, all bunched up and ruffled and not controlled by any stitching. The cane would then be pushed through this channel but only the ridge where the stitching makes the casing is it seen. Does that make sense?

* Pockets - as seen in second photo.

* The Top panel is made up of segments and with just a fold over channel for the ties.

* There is the smallest of glimpses into the inside of the pannier and although we can definitely say it's not a cage pannier with cloth draped over - it's really hard to see anything beyond that.

* Hem is NOT caned/boned.

* The linen fabric itself doesn't look too heavy - the weave is fairly textured and obvious and certainly there is a strong look about it, but I wouldn'e describe it as 'canvas looking' - I'm really going to have find that quote.

* On the second image there is also a piece of extra fabric sewn on - possibly an attempt to mend it -  as I cannot see this on the front or anywhere else - for a minute I thought it could've been a boning channel starting.

* Length of hips seem to be about 15" going with the curve of the top. I say this because it seems to be about equal to the torso of the body and my mannequin measures 15" from waist to shoulder.

* Also, last thing - there are ties at the front - is it right to assume they are for shaping the petticoat? Part of the essential process in pannier making as I make one now, is to have the ties in at each level. These then get tied to their partner on the opposite side of the pannier and tightened to depending how narrow you want the panniers to be (i.e to the waist size of the customer). Is it that the cane has now so long been set that the ties aren't needed to hold the shape? Or is it that they were never needed to hold the shape, but just to pull the oval cane in when needed to adapt to the waist size? There is another pannier (or hooped petticoat) that I haven't as yet put up on this blog, having run out of time where there are many, many, many ties. Surely they can only be for the same use which we use them now? If anyone has any thoughts, or more knowledge on this matter please message me.

Short Panniers:

Panniers from the Kyoto Costume Institute.
But I can't seem to pin an image of this particular pannier down to my blog page - I will yet continue to try but for now - check out the following site: www.kci.or.jp/archives/digital_archives/detail_8_e.html .

This should take you to a page which has a mannequin wearing a beautiful 18th Cent shift, a brown corset and a pair of short panniers: Have a good zoom in.
- In fact - I've just found it on someone else's blog - so here's the image but I've left the above information up as it is still better to go to the website and have a close up look.
What's interesting about this is the details they give with the photo.

* One full circular round Cane - they depict as Rattan Cane.

* Looks like two side arched canes going into the waistline rather than arching round like the others.

* Website says fabric is 'Cotton Chintz' which is quite interesting.

* Website also uses the words 'oval hoops'; as in plural but I can only see one and that's probably accidental and referring to all the canes used, oval or not.

* The panniers literally sit at hip level.

* From the image it's not possible to see if there are pockets and perhaps with the side canes going into the waist it might limit the amount of pocket space.

Hoop Petticoat 1755-86 - Cora Ginsburg

Details:

- Now this is an interesting example of a hooped petticoat and the following details are mostly based on complete guess work as I have at the moment, only this image to go from.

- Obvious detail is that the cane is only joined to the seen-skirt at the CF in three places: not including the top cane/bone. Now, the only three reasons I can come up for for this go as follows:

               1) Only this small CF detail has been caned and for some reason it gets                       caned with a smaller piece of cane/bone for each level.

               2) The cane/bone is ONLY joined to the fabric at these centre points but                    carries round un-covered and presumably held in place by connecting ties and                straps as seen in other panniers.(see above).

               3) That the canes.bones are ONLY joined to the fabric at these centre                        points but that another skirt layer is underneath; allowing an extra                          covering over the cane/bone so that it is less likely to come through to the                 top-side of the skirt.

In my mind the least likely and least logical is the first option.

- Top complete cane holding out the top of the skirt.

- No top arched canes.

- Gathered in top section with side pockets or easy access - I can't figure it out which is the correct reason for these gaps.

- Quite long in length - say lower mid-calf.

- Hem not caned or boned.

There is an example of a top layer of fabric covering the boning is Iris Brooke's Book 'Dress and Undress'. Here's an image below. Her notes on the page say 'All these are to be found in various collections in England'.

(It's the one in the bottom left hand corner if you hadn't figured it out!)

Also, having just brought the book 'Costumes Close Up' by Linda Baumgarten and John Watson, they cover this particular item. I've scanned it in to my laptop so you should be able to see it below....

Mid-length Striped Hooped Petticoat:

The Handmade Corset Update #4

Just a quick update to show where I am at the moment - I'm just at the stage of sewing the leather trim along the bottom hem and it's complicated work. I'm also not convinced I've got the pattern just right - it seems to be far shorter in the body than I imagined it would be. The ones in the museums are incredible long in the body and I'm a tall person! I've obviously not done the dimensions correctly. But nevermind, it will still be exciting to feel what it's like to wear and have such a bulky garment strapped round you.

If I'm honest - it makes me want to do another one.

This, once finished, will be trimmed down and pulled to the back tightly, like I've done the top.

That's it for now, I'm just going to keep going and keep updating.

Bias Discussion on Corset Side Front Panel

Jil Salen p.13

Jil Salen, in her book 'Corsets - Historical Patterns and Techniques' lays her Side Front Panel neatly on the grain.(see page 13)

On the very next page she notes on another corset: "...using the grain of the fabrics to flow around the body and support the bust." (see page 15)

Norah Waugh, famous for 'Corsets and Crinolines', lays her 1730-40 corset on the grain (see page 39).

She also uses Diderot's drawings from his pamphlet ' Le Tailleur d'Habits et Tailleur de Corps' but although detailed - this does not show which grain the actual fabric has been placed on - only the positioning of the bones, nor in the description based on his leaflet on how to make the stays up, does it mention where the grainline lies. (see pages 152 for the drawings and p.153, under the heading 'Eighteenth Century Stay' or the description in Corset and Crinolones.)

It's a terrible photo but, when cutting out my corset, I diligently placed it on the grainline and boy, does it help with the stitching and getting a neat straight line. BUT....

Going back over my photo's from my research sessions at The Bath Fashion Museum, and zooming into the photos, the grain lines for two of the corsets where I could get a good clear image of the weave of the fabrics, neither go along with the sweeping lines of the Side Front Panels.

If this works, I've uploaded the photo's in it's original size so you might have to scroll along but the weave of the linen should be clear enough for you to be able to trace the grain line for yourself.
I've also included a smaller image of the photo so you can see what you're looking at as a whole.

Here's BATMC 1.27.85, dated 1775-80.

(Images Courtesy of The Fashion Museum Bath and North East Somerset Council)

Here's the same image but smaller.

Image Courtesy of the Fashion Museum, Bath and North East Somerset Council.

The next corset is BATMC 1.27.865 and dated 1700-1799.

Image Courtesy of the Fashion Museum, Bath and North East Somerset Council.

And again, here's a smaller image.

Image Courtesy of the Fashion Museum, Bath and North East Somerset Council.

You can see from the larger image that the grain line for this particular corset actually follows the 3rd tab (the one next to the Side Back Panel) but this seems to be the only place where it does.

I wonder about this really.

Staymaking was such an art, skill and exact science in every other aspect, that it doesn't seem likely that it was just not an important issue where the grain lay and that they just placed it anywhere. Although I admit we can't really rule this out.

What is interesting is, even while neither of the corsets from the Bath Fashion Museum match, they do echo each other: ie, the grainline running roughly with the tab closest the Side Back Panel and pushing towards (if you can imagine it) the top of the CF join.

Or using Jil Salen's image again...

roughly (and very roughly as this is a slightly different pattern shape) in this position. Although I'd say the pattern and shape of the Side Front Panel of the two from the Bath Fashion Musuem were much wider and the tab set much more to the left so that the arrow could be angle a bit more pointing to the CF top corner. But this image was really only used as a tool to be able to describe it clearly.

This post wasn't really supposed to come to any conclusion but just lay out what I've found and that it is an interesting issue and one to be continuously researched.

I guess the next worthy step would be to visit the Colchester and Ipswich Museum and see if the corset Jil Salen uses on p.11 of her book 'Corsets' could be viewed. And if it could, then there'd be plain evidence which way the grain lay. Norah Waugh doesn't mention which corsets she bases her patterns on from pages 38-44 so there's no way to verify hers.

If anyone else out there has close up images of corsets from this period and would be interested in looking at which way their panels run, I'd be most interested for your feed back.

The Handmade Corset Update #3

It's a bit unfair because in this photo the corset looks like it's laying flat - but it's truly not! I promise. I am so excited at how similar this feels and sits to the ones I have studied in the Museums. It's a first attempt at the techniques but I couldn't be happier. Yes there's messy stitching and lines that I wish I'd done differently and tabs that don't echo the pattern but, and it's a big BUT. I feel like I've jumped miles forward in my research.

This is a photo of the stage where all the panels have been joined together. Each join will be covered with a silk ribbon and the tops trimmed with a soft skin and then the whole thing lined to finish it off, but the next stage is eyeleting the CB panels and then lacing it to my mannequin and giving it a good steam.

My hope is that this will soften some of the joins and mould the corset into a better shape.

Here's a photo of the underside - I am a little ashamed at how much extra pad stitching I had to do to pull it in, but....

And here's a photo of a close up of the CF and some of the stitching detail.

You can see from this image some of the clumsiness of the bone work along the CF line and where it's been whipped together. I'm hoping to get better at this technique. Not all of the panels have such angled boning lines so some have turned out much smoother and neater, but I'm sure practise will make perfect and a technique will be discovered.

Thanks for looking and I'll be updating the steaming stage next along with the eyelets. 

It's really coming on leaps and bounds now, after months of just hand stitching all the boning in.

The Handmade Corset Update #2

As with any good sample there have been many many mistakes with this corset (and I know that the correct term is 'pair of stays' but to be honest it's quicker just to say 'corset' -so my apologies). 

Let's call them things I have learnt!

And I was going to list them all here but the amount of writing and explanations I'd have to do would make for a very boring looking blog. 

So first here's an update photo; the last panel's been completed and then all the sides have been wrapped in round the edge and whipped at the back. (Here be the first lesson learnt - concentrate much harder on getting the angle of the boning correct and in it's right position and it will make for a much smoother edge)

The Completed Panels:

You can already see from this photo how the two CF panels differ - that is because I ran out of the hessian backing (which I was using instead of a proper expensive linen canvas) and so had nothing to back my boning channels with.

And my undersides don't emulate the corset in the Bath Fashion Museum's undersides, my boning wanted to curve the wrong way so I copied the pad stitching idea used by tailors to control the front chest of their jackets, to pull in each panel. The corsets in the museum - it is needless to say - don't have this, theirs look remarkably flat and neat. 

Here's a photo of my underneath:

And here's the image of a corset in the Bath Fashion Museum (Image courtesy of the Fashion Museum, Bath and North East Somerset Council):

I can only imagine that their flatter boning channels result from the use of the rectangled shaped baleen and maybe slightly looser boning channels - my round cane bounced out rather too nicely thank you very much.

And the sewing of the SF Panel (the photo previous to this one above) also threw up some interesting questions on where they put the grain for this particular panel. But I want to go and do a bit more research into this and maybe do another Post for it later.

Then once all the panels were prepared, then came the stage of joining them together. This was actually slightly easier than I thought, but only slightly and my stitching would've been a lot neater had the sides of the panels been a lot neater - well we live and learn. 

Please see photo beneath...

And....

Well I think that's all for now, I've just got to finish getting them altogether and then argue over the idea of steaming first....

..... (O which means eyeleting first, but I was going to do a study into why the eyelets weren't sewn on the lining and that kind of messes me up but really I ought to do the steaming before the silk ribbon goes on as I am hoping it will soften some of the joins and the shapes of the panels....but then it might be good to see what happens to the silk ribbon while I steam just to see what they might have done and if I'm correct in my assumption they would've put the silk ribbon on after.....)

The Hand-Made Corset Update:

I haven't added up the hours yet but I'd say, getting to the 7th panel (as seen below)...it's been about...180 hours? Well something like that. This has been a marathon of sewing, I've been carrying it everywhere - round friend's, while watching tv, getting to work early just to do 15 minutes worth.

I left the most complicated panel til last (see above) and I'm not completely happy with some of my lines on this panel - there are some wonky ones - but I am also SO looking forward to it being finished.

It's been a complete gift of God even figuring out the technique and getting the bones so tight.

This photo above is of the 7 panels already done - the half-finished 7th panel has just been slipped into it's slot on the left next to the CF, while the 8th is still missing and still unmade.

The Many Blue Dresses:

Gainsborough:

Mr and Mrs Andrews by Gainsborough 1748-49

Mr and Mrs Carter by Gainsborough. 1747-48

Mr and Mrs Kirby by Gainsborough. 1751-52

Portrait of a Woman - Possibly of the Lloyd Family by Gainsborough.  1750's

Thomas Gainsborough with his Wife and Eldest Daughter Mary by Gainsborough. 1751-52

The Gravenor Family by Gainsborough. 1754.

This is the beginning of some slow studying. 

Though they all appear incredibly similar at first glance, there are some marked differences. All of them have the same double-pleated (or 'Front Pleats' as referred to by Bennet and Witt and also Bradfield '68) and open-fronted Bodices with a white neckerchief tucked in.

Mrs Carter's the only one (as far as I can tell) who's wearing a full sack, Mrs Kirby appears to be wearing a short sack (or 'Pet-en-lair' or also a 'French Jacket' - Arnold 1984) and so does Mrs Thomas, although it is so incredibly vague it's hard to tell. If you look at her portrait there is a clear line on the left (her right) of a piece of fabric cutting across the others and only the darest hint of one on the other side. I think it more likely to be a 'Short Sack' than a train tucked over but this is not to be ruled out.

The rest appear to be in simple Robe a la Anglais'  (or 'not sack-back gowns').

This is only a quick glance. I'm hoping to get into drawings and pattern techniques and looking at other similar dresses as I go, but it's amazing what you can get out of a painting when you really sit and look at it.

I'm especially interested in the doing up of the bodices. It would be wonderful to find a gown outside of a painting to have a closer look at or a painting that's without the neckerchief tucked in so as it's easier to study.

But this is how it starts; getting back to good ol' fashioned researching.